108 vs 110 lobe separation

108 vs 110 lobe separationconstance zimmer stroke

After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. The absence of engine knocking ensures that your car engine is reasonably combusting the fuel. It affects the powerband and temperament of a motor more than any other single part, and a slight change can turn a car from a mild-tempered grocery-getter to a downright nasty machine. Now its not shifting into 3rd and you are here. A 232 deg duration cam with a 108 deg LCA will have the same valve overlap as a 236 deg cam with a 110 deg LCA and idle will probably be very similar. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Aug 20, 2006. Yeah but do the experiment on the dyno and tell me your intuition is correct. by mike thompson Tue May 13, 2003 4:03 am, Post Howards Cam Vs Comp Cam: Which Is The Best Option For You? Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. The 402 was run with a FAST LSXR LS3 intake and matching 102mm throttle body along with stock LS3 rockers, a Holley HP management system and 7.4-inch hardened pushrods (from Comp Cams). 112 will have a smoother idle, a wider power band, and will work better with fuel injection. The other thing is that you need to tune your ignition advance to maximize your performance. Thanks. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. You must log in or register to reply here. Alternatively, if you are running a bigger camshaft to gain maximum top-end power, cam makers often suggest reducing the lobe separation angle to recover power lost in the lower rev range.. . A wider LSA moves intake- and exhaust-valve events farther apart and creates less overlap, which hurts intake-wave tuning. Looking at 108vs. To illustrate the differences offered by changes in the LSA, we had Crane cams grind us three cam profiles that shared the same lift and duration figures, but differed only in the LSA. But an interestingly shocking fact is that this event escalates the air-fuel mixtures reaction rates, causing temperatures to rise and causing the problem of overheating the engine. Split duration/lift only helps when your intake/exhaust ratio is low on the exhaust side. I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " After spending 8 years in plant production engineering, Noah wanted to join Engine Addiction as a key member of all cars specific guides, reviews, repairs, suggestions, and more. I bet you won't see a bit of difference. (You can find an instructional video of how to do just that on our Clay Smith Cams YouTube Channel;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s ). These favorable mechanical features depict the powerful acceleration capacity of the engine with higher oil and energy consumption rate, overheating problems, and other mechanical problems. ditto with the above. by jobes Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:51 pm, Post ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. My lift will be about .580" intake and exhaust, with about 230/236 duration with a 1.7 rocker ratio, utilizing a Jesel shaft rocker system. The 234o duration kind of eliminates the RV usage. However, it is fixable. What happens when you change ONLY. so it is a solid flat tappet, torker intake, 1" 4-hole tapered spacer and 750 carb (QFT) transmission is a wide ratio toploader, rear is a 9" 3.89 geared 26"rear tires. 110 LSA: On the contrary, if you look at the powerband at 110 LSA, the powerband is comparatively broader. I have seen a dyno test where an engine using identical duration and lift made more peak power with a 112 LSA than a 110 LSA. (LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE)cam CRANES 110921 has the intake close at 45 degrees ABDC while the wider lsa CRANES 114681 closes the valves at 50.0 ABDC . Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. But, the narrow or broad powerband choice varies from person to person. A tighter LSA is always going to have more overlap, which allows the exhaust and intake systemif they're tuned wellto work together.". If you look at the cam card, you will find a maximum lift column on the card.Now, all you have to do is, add up the two mentioned maximum angles and divide the summation by 2. Lobe seperation cant be seperated from duration,the 2 are connected.the old duntov cam had a lot less duration than many new cams so the valve overlap was not extreme and the engine ran with a gentle lope.Increase the duration by 20* and this cam would shake a 283 out of the car at idle,but then increase the lobe seperation by 4* and the motor will have a gentle lope again. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Generally speaking, decreasing the lobe centerline angle increases overlap. It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. 108* or narrower lobe separation angle (LSA) is "Narrow" and 114* or wider (up to 117* or 120* for stock cams) is "Wide" , with 110 to 112* being the "normal" hot-rod cam. As you can see in the graph, the 101 LSA cam actually had the highest cranking compression of the batch: 185 psi. 2023 Power Automedia. Thanks again. THis is a real generalization, but the weaker your heads, the more you will like the smaller centers ( 106-108) the better the heads, and the higher the compression, the more it will like the wider centers ( 112-114)everything else falls somewhere in the middle( 108-110) Once you get close with the cam centerlines, it wont make much differance if you change it up or down by 2 degrees. Again, these are general bits of conventional wisdom. Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks. For Example: A 110-degree lobe separation means that the peak opening points of the Intake and Exhaust lobes is 110 degrees apart. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. (ICL + ECL) / 2 = LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE (LSA) LSA is a RESULT of the PROPER events. Overlap is the amount of time that both valves are open in the same cylinder. Since we were only changing the lobe separation angle, we had to make sure every variable (air/fuel, timing, water, air, and oil temps) was identical during testing. 106 LSA: On the contrary, if we look at the 106 LSA, we will find it more advantageous and energy efficient than the 110 LSA engine. A 112-114 degree lobe center will have a better idle and produce more vacuum with less overlap. Leave the 108 for solid rollers turning big rpms. whats the difference in how the car will run. As a result, you can enjoy a pleasing engine outcome. 11 Doing LS cam swaps on the engine dyno is a breeze, each taking less than 1 hour. Comparison Table Between 106 Vs 110 Lobe Separation Angle. The 112-degree cam (red lines) picked up much of the torque, but the big winner was the cam with the tightest lobe separation angle. How do the lobe separations change when you factor in turbocharging? Engine knocking generally occurs when the burning of the fuel by the engine is uneven. It should still make close to 600hp and 600tq in my 512" stealth headed big block. However, these rules are not absolute. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 AquaTraction Vs SeaDek: Which One Is Better For you? "Ninety-nine percent of cranking compression is dictated by static compression ratio and intake-valve closing point," said Comp Cams' Billy Godbold. I do believe that stock VW seperation is 108 and 112 is used alot in turbo and midrange cams for VW's while 106 is used for the top end cams. JavaScript is disabled. While lift and duration are most often discussed when talk turns to cam timing, there is a third variable that has a decided effect on both power and personality. The 114 LSA is good for a blower or nitros motor. Frankly cams with a 108-114 lca unless in the perfect combo you won't usually see more than 15hp and you won't really feel the difference except for either a peaky or broad power band. But, you may wonder knowing that a higher valve clearance rate reduces the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. I am trying to pick out a hydraulic roller cam for my 351W with AFR 185s. A narrower LCA will increase valve overlap and close the (intake) valve earlier, which explains the typical rougher idler and more midrange behaviour. = Moderately Tight 106-104 Deg. Usually, an old gas tank is responsible for a vehicle bogging down during acceleration. A cam's lobe separation determines where and for how long peak torque occurs in an engine's rpm range. Tests 2 and 3 meant dissecting the motor on the dyno to get the old cam out. Bad idea in my view. But, you may find it quite shocking that the piston-to-valve clearances decreasing rate raises the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. 03 The 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods were combined with a set of forged asymmetrical pistons from JE. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. So, the 110 LSA engine is a suitable choice for people prone to be the fan of a powerful engine with mighty acceleration power. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. True enough, the tight LSA improved power through the entire rev range, from 3,600 to 6,500 rpm, but the extra power came with a penalty in idle quality. by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:36 pm, Post 3.75" stroke= 108 LSA 4.00" stroke= 110 LSA 4.25" stroke= 112 LSA 4.50" stroke= 114 LSA I can see exactly where his theory is coming from. After the next three pulls, it was clear the 113 cam was way down on low-end torque. Big strokers like tighter LCA but it really depends on your combo and usage, theres great OTS cams but for a custom engine a custom cam is the way to go With identical cam lobes you won't see a bit of difference. A narrow, more specific power band is also a product of a narrow LSA, as is a lumpy idle qualityoften referred to as the 106 sound. 106 LSA: There is an increasing chance of engine knock at the 106 lobe separation angle. . by bigjoe1 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:48 pm, Post 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. If a street car has smaller lift and duration numbers, they might run 112 or 114. Like one cam is 112 degree and the next is 108 the 108 cam will allow less "leakage"? Come join the discussion about popular models such as the Mustang, Galaxie, Falcon, Fairlane, Torino, Shelby and many more! With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. So, sit tight back and explore. On a torque graph it tends to resemble a triangular shape.. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes, says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. such as 290 @.050? The idle quality was better with the 112-degree LSA but not as good as the wider 120-degree cam.The ultra-wide 120-degree LSA lost low-speed power and never recovered, but know that this wide LSA is often beneficial on positive displacement, supercharged applications. How To Properly Replace Ignition Coils, Chevy 350 Ignition Coil Location And Everything About Them, Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When Accelerating. Kevko baffled oil pan & Milidon windage tray. dur. The ported heads were capable of supporting over 700 hp, so we knew they would not be restrictive on our stroker. For large port heads like the CNC 044's which can use the extra lift 1.4's make a noticable difference. Come join the discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. Moreover, a user from the Chevelle forum said. 110 LSA: But, contrarily, at 110 LSA, you dont have to face the problem of engine knocking. 106 LSA: There is a scale of standard cranking compression of the engine. As the RPM's go up this is not as critical as the higher velocity of the air/fuel moving thru keeps it from getting contaminated. The world of fuel injection is where wide LSA cams like the 113 really shine. (2002) et rappel sur une carte hors texte. The lobe separation angle is a comprise of what the engine needs depending on the compression, combustion chamber, rpm, engine size, head volume, and many, many other variables. The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. Also, the wider LSA contributes to chassis stability in drag racing by avoiding the delivery of a ferocious blast of power that would break tire traction. That notion is completely false. 15,215. ohio. Brul spun the engine over with the dyno's starters and recorded 185 psi of cranking compression. If identical and for a given displacement the 110 will give more power. That was all, and we have already reached the concluding point. Maybe even 114. Valve lift will bear weight in any decision regarding LSA. by mrsmythe Tue May 13, 2003 5:45 am, Post Idle quality was rough and the vacuum gauge showed only 9.8 in-Hg (inches of mercury). Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? And better gas mileage. Turbochargers are not as simple as they may sound; you may think of them only as power-boosting components. 110 LSA) and Crane's #341191 (238/248, .563"/.587", 114 LSA), display considerably different characteristics. Bolander says those cams help promote torque in a controlled and predictable manner, especially in no-wake zones and around the docks. Changing the lobe separation angle changes the amount of overlap that exists during the time the intake and exhaust valves are both open, echoes Doug Patton of Pro Line Race Engines. from the intake to the exhaust and vise-versa.Thats why a performance cam will usually have a rougher idle than a stock one. The 110o will make more power overall. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. It's the scavenging effect of the high velocity exhaust gases rushing out that pulls the fresh fuel/air charge into the chamber. The custom cams we selected all featured 0.624-inch lift (both intake and exhaust) and a 232/242-degree duration split. Its the shifting problem again with your Chevy! Another important measurement was the torque production at 4,000 rpm and this cam checked in with 484 lb-ft of torque. The 112-degree cam produced peak numbers of 567 hp at 6,200 rpm and 540 lb-ft of torque while pumping out 511 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm. I would say 114-117* would be a normal 1960's stock cam range and 117* to 120* is more what we see on modern engines. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. Generally, naturally aspirated engines run narrower lobe separation angles of around 106 to 108 whereas supercharged, turbo or nitrous engines operate with 112 to 114 and higher. too much for the street? For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast. The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. Walter Noah is a process engineer who has a knack for resolving even the toughest technical issue. - Sheryl Crow. In a blower motor when the valve timing events are where they need to be the lobe sep will usually wind up in the 114-115 range on most Combos. so the power will come on a litter sooner with the 114, and fall off a little sooner? Some prefer a narrow powerband, and some prefer the broader one. O onovakind67 Registered Joined Dec 14, 2001 6,242 Posts Jerry Bird Street Outlaws Net Worth, Yasmin Cader Frazier Parents, Modern Farmhouse Siding, Piercing Shops Liverpool, Which City Has A Doughnut Variety Named For It?, Articles OTHER
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